I never heard of Charlie Kirk before a few days ago. Now we read so much pro and con it is dizzying.
His horrific murder is to be condemned by every member of our society in the strongest possible way. No excuses of any kind are acceptable.

His murder has torn the Country further apart because it is being politicized. That is unfortunate.
Mr Kirk was an influencer as they say. As a private citizen he preached an ideology as he saw it, one aligned with the MAGA movement. That was his right as was free speech – up to limits that apply to all of us.
Now what we need to be concerned about is how his death is being used.
Social media is full of accusations claiming it was leftists, Democrats that killed him.
Kirk’s body was flown home on Air Force Two, the Vice President’s government plane. That is not appropriate, his reported friendship with Vance notwithstanding.

The President ordered flags at half staff, also not appropriate for a private citizen with no connection to government or national service other than a political promoter.
The President has said he will posthumously grant the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
Extremely inappropriate if for no other reason that Mr Kirk was not speaking for or on behalf of or in the interest of all Americans, but for what half of America sees as an extreme divisive ideology.
The Presidential Medal of Freedom is the Nation’s highest civilian honor, presented to individuals who have made especially meritorious contributions to the security or national interests of the United States, to world peace, or to cultural or other significant public or private endeavors.
Does what Mr Kirk did meet that definition? How?
Would someone like Rachel Maddow on the political left be treated the same?
I see this as disrespectful to Mr Kirk and his family, but I’m not sure he would see it that way.
Mr Trump and some of his associates are using this tragedy for political gain, gain that further divides us, further demonizes political opponents.


We both lived through the JFK, MLK assassinations.
The GF death had horrible actions throughout our nation.
Following the assassination of Charlie Kirk, there was no looting, no rioting. He professed brotherly love and positivity. That love was expressed by people in England, Australia and other countries throughout the world.
That was Charlie Kirk. Hope the doubters could find it in their heart to calm their negativity. Not just about Charlie Kirk, but about other people and issues as well.
Make a positive difference in someone’s life today. Bill Mitchell
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when you say doubters, is that code for people who don’t agree with Kirk’s white Christian nationalist agenda?
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I think you need to go and read some of his comments before saying he preached brotherly love. Many people don’t see it that way.
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We have entered full on fascism at this point. It is obvious to almost everyone that the shooter was a far right groyper, a follower of Nick Fuentes, but the regime is trying to obfuscate this because it doesn’t fit their goals of using Kirk’s death as a martyr to go after any opposition or dissent. I have enjoyed your posts for a long time and hope you aren’t targeted or harassed for this. I admire your bravery and agree with you completely on this subject.
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Al Lindquist:
Give some examples of “full fascism”. I guess we evolved since the election.
What we know, according to CNN, is the killer had a transsexual love interest who is talking to police while the killer never moves his lips.
How do you know the “regime is trying to obfuscate the death”? Are you getting messages from outside forces about this.
Didn’t know the NY Times–Wash. Post–LA Times–CNN–MSNBC–PBS–NPR–TIME magazine–ABC–NBC–CBS (well, Paramount caved) were worried about criticism from the administration–maybe like the corpse he will propose a ministry of disinformation.
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yep, all reporting details by the media above consistent with being a groyper – the Pepe costume, the discord transcripts, the bullet inscriptions – and the tell on obfuscation is that the regime is still trying to refer to the shooter as “leftist” with zero evidence. If the regime had anything indicating it was some sort of leftist, it would be all over the headlines. Kirk was a big target of the groypers so there is motive too.
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Just look up the standard definition and then match what you see happening in our Country today. Its pretty scary.
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For all who think Trump is a facist, why not compare him to the left’s preferred president, FDR. President Biden trumped himself as a latter day FDR – hoping to be transformative in his own right.
Nearly 20 years ago, David Boaz reviewed a study by Wolfgang Schivelbusch, published by Metropolitan Books, titled: “Three New Deals: Reflections on Roosevelt’s Ameria, Mussolini’s Italy, and Hitler’s Germany 1933 – 1939. That is, Hitler and Mussolini thought fondly of FDR, and considered him a fellow facist.
On May 7, 1933, just two months after the inauguration of Franklin Delano Roosevelt, the New York Times reporter Anne O’Hare McCormick wrote ”The Roosevelt administration envisages a federation of industry, labor and government after the fashion of the corporative State as it exists in Italy.”
That article isn’t quoted in Three New Deals, a fascinating study by the German cultural historian Wolfgang Schivelbusch. But it underscores his central argument: that there are surprising similarities between the programs of Roosevelt, Mussolini, and Hitler.
In the 1930s, everyone agreed that capitalism had failed. It wasn’t hard to find common themes and mutual admiration in Washington, Berlin, and Rome, not to mention Moscow.
That isn’t a historical curiosity. Schivelbusch concludes his essay with the liberal journalist John T. Flynn’s warning, in 1944, that state power feeds on crises and enemies. Since then we have been warned about many crises and many enemies, and we have come to accept a more powerful and more intrusive state than existed before the ’30s.
Schivelbusch finds parallels in the ideas, style, and programs of the disparate regimes — even their architecture. For example, “Think of the “Man Controlling Trade” sculptures in front of the Federal Trade Commission, with a muscular man restraining an enormous horse. They would have been right at home in Il Duce’s Italy.
“To compare,” Schivelbusch stresses, “is not the same as to equate. America during Roosevelt’s New Deal did not become a one-party state; it had no secret police; the Constitution remained in force, and there were no concentration camps; the New Deal preserved the institutions of the liberal-democratic system that National Socialism abolished.” But throughout the ’30s, intellectuals and journalists noted “areas of convergence among the New Deal, Fascism, and National Socialism.” All three were seen as transcending “classic Anglo-French liberalism” — individualism, free markets, decentralized power.
Jack note – consider:
As early as 1912, FDR himself praised the Prussian-German model: “They passed beyond the liberty of the individual to do as he pleased with his own property and found it necessary to check this liberty for the benefit of the freedom of the whole people.” American Progressives studied at German universities, Schivelbusch writes, and “came to appreciate the Hegelian theory of a strong state and Prussian militarism as the most efficient way of organizing modern societies that could no longer be ruled by anarchic liberal principles.”
In the North American Review in 1934, the progressive writer Roger Shaw described the New Deal as “Fascist means to gain liberal ends.” He wasn’t hallucinating. FDR’s adviser Rexford Tugwell wrote in his diary that Mussolini had done “many of the things which seem to me necessary.” … At the National Recovery Administration (NRA), the cartel-creating agency at the heart of the early New Deal, one report declared forthrightly, “The Fascist Principles are very similar to those we have been evolving here in America.”
Roosevelt himself called Mussolini “admirable” and professed that he was “deeply impressed by what he has accomplished.” The admiration was mutual. In a laudatory review of Roosevelt’s 1933 book Looking Forward, Mussolini wrote, “Reminiscent of Fascism is the principle that the state no longer leaves the economy to its own devices.… Without question, the mood accompanying this sea change resembles that of Fascism.” The chief Nazi newspaper, Volkischer Beobachter, repeatedly praised “Roosevelt’s adoption of National Socialist strains of thought in his economic and social policies” and “the development toward an authoritarian state” based on the “demand that collective good be put before individual self-interest.”
In 1973 one of the most distinguished American historians, John A. Garraty of Columbia University, created a stir with his article “The New Deal, National Socialism, and the Great Depression.” Garraty was an admirer of Roosevelt but couldn’t help noticing, for instance, the parallels between the Civilian Conservation Corps and similar programs in Germany. Both, he wrote, “were essentially designed to keep young men out of the labor market. Roosevelt described work camps as a means for getting youth ‘off the city street corners,’ Hitler as a way of keeping them from ‘rotting helplessly in the streets.’
To compare is not to equate, as Schivelbusch says. It’s sobering to note the real parallels among these systems. But it’s even more important to remember that the U.S. did not succumb to dictatorship. Roosevelt may have stretched the Constitution beyond recognition, and he had a taste for planning and power previously unknown in the White House. But he was not a murderous thug.
A nation whose fundamental ideology is, in the words of the recently deceased sociologist Seymour Martin Lipset, “antistatism, laissez-faire, individualism, populism, and egalitarianism” will be far more resistant to illiberal ideologies.
Jack note: I’m confident America will survive the idiot ass Trump, as it did from 2017 – 2021, and as we survived folks like Presidents Carter, Obama, Biden, Andrew Johnson (after the Civil War), and James Buchanan (before the Civil War leaving office only a month or so before the start of the Civil War).
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I looked in several sources for the definition of fascism and it looks like we are closer to many elements suggested than we have ever been.
What elements of fascism do you see in past presidents? Maybe i have the wrong definition.
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I cited two from FDR -jailing families of minority Americans and intentionally controlling farming production. Others suggest CCC, and confirmed FDR stretched the Constitution far, far beyond its intent – threatening to pack the court, cowing them into agreement with his abuses.
“A nation whose fundamental ideology is, in the words of the recently deceased sociologist Seymour Martin Lipset, “antistatism, laissez-faire, individualism, populism, and egalitarianism” will be far more resistant to illiberal ideologies.”
that’s where I am
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I don’t doubt what you say, but i don’t see even that comparing to what is going on today.
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Sorry, has Trump tried to pack the supreme court whenever it decides against him? Has Trump ignored the supreme court (a la Biden and student loans) when it decided against him? Has Trump federalized a significant portion of the private sector? Has Trump created camps for Americans who are the wrong minority?
I gave you a significant list of the differences between Trump and Hitler in prior notes.
You continue to depict him with a toothbrush moustache.
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Again, until I see Trump ignore a supreme court decision, a la Biden, I believe our Republic is more than strong enough to survive the idiot ass Trump.
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Al Lindquist
good work per usual Jack–Quinn is having a hard time understanding some off the basics you covered–TDS can do that to you–I think where it is pointed out that one element of fascism is where the state and the economy become one is a simple and direct definition. Excellent historical analysis.
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Be very careful. Even if they can’t fire you, you may regret any statement you make about Kirk. I could say I don’t disagree with any of your points in this article. (Only because several of my close relatives, who I love, will never see this post.)
One thing to keep in mind, though, as with most topics, is you simply can’t believe –any– thing you read in the media. Example, Charlie never said gays should be stoned to death. Ask Stephen King.
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Al Lindquist
Charlie said some stupid and foolish things but it is outweighed by fostering the notion that debate and diversity of thought should be encouraged especially on college campuses. He was comfortable discussing the French Revolution as well as the American Revolution. Brilliant guy but some views definitely out of my mainstream.
Medal of Freedom winners include Hillary (“basketful of deplorables?)–Ralph Lauren (lots of $ to the looney tune party)–George Soros (what can one say?)—Magic Johnson (big donor to the loons–campaigned extensively for the corpse)–Anna Wintour (gives big gifts to loons). All awarded I believe by the corpse last January. Think any of theses people spoke on behalf of all of us not just some of us?
Would Rachel Madcow be a recipient?–could be but I would shut her out like I do Hannity although Hannity beats her in the ratings.
Seems as if leaders worldwide have praised Charlie Kirk in death–vigils held world wide–would the death of Madcow trigger such a world wide response? Name any recipient above that would would have had the response that Charlie Kirk received.
If it’s “wrong and dangerous” then why to traffic in
Just think Trump using a tragedy to gain political advantage–almost like the party of loons who use shootings to promote some form of gun control–people now stay out of gun shops in fear of the guns opening up on them—those guns are so damn dangerous.
Lefties who use Hitler–Nazi–fascism in their propaganda to instill fear and loathing in their fellow citizens are certainly not helping the divide that separates us. But, if you are a political hack then why would that person care?
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